200cc - Which Would You Choose

[blackknightrealms]

interesting info. mr, haen.did you try producing this kind of sample or encounter it ?hopefully more will join this discussion. and we can maybe produce theoretical way of doing one way and applying it in a new way. well.more heads are better the one. always people has some part of info.maybe if we can stack up then we can see the the whole picture! any info from other Asian friend?maybe you have something to share.really appreciate all you input. just a reminder though....respect each other post and everyone is entitle to their opinion....

 

[rowan]

rowan Vixion block of this set up of yours and Admin was Squish/shave?..by how many mm?..thanks in advance Idol..

i remember haen posted safe is .5mm but u can do all the way till 1.5mm unless u do it right

 

[rowan]

here is the nipple on the underside of the valve cap sir rowan

View attachment 16813View attachment 16814

thanks doc. not so familiar with raider valve cap. thought it was flat also inside thanks

 

[rhoitol]

i remember haen posted safe is .5mm but u can do all the way till 1.5mm unless u do it right

thanks sir, but im asking the set up of the two monster bikes with vixion kit, does your set up now and admin shave the block? by how many mm?..

 

[haen]

why do you need to do this?? isnt it much better to modify combustion chamber to unshroud valves and promote better flow? you want to reduce squish band to increase compression but yet the area of the stock valves still need unshrouding to promote better flow. why not just use hicompression piston instead.

agreed ! our goal actually is achieving hi compression with dished piston (better flame travel - unobstructed)..

interesting info. mr, haen.did you try producing this kind of sample or encounter it ?hopefully more will join this discussion. and we can maybe produce theoretical way of doing one way and applying it in a new way. well.more heads are better the one. always people has some part of info.maybe if we can stack up then we can see the the whole picture! any info from other Asian friend?maybe you have something to share.really appreciate all you input. just a reminder though....respect each other post and everyone is entitle to their opinion....

currently in research, already producing one, one thing is it is a YES better low end rpm performance, high rpm power, still have to find the most optimum w.. the mystery still lies in the porting shape, size ratio for staggering the valves size, shrouding area etc.... really love to do the research together with you guys...

thanks sir, but im asking the set up of the two monster bikes with vixion kit, does your set up now and admin shave the block? by how many mm?..

1,5 mm block shave the piston would hit the cyl head, can be solved though .. the stock deck clearance is 0.8 mm + 0.2 mm cyl head gasket (pressed)... i suggest to shave the head instead of the block, max block shave is 0.8 mm, but for safety 0.5 mm, then do the rest on the cyl head.. things to remember.. the timing chain would loosen a bit and does effect the cam timing too.. also like doc gabby said.. unshroud the valves if you havent done so.. also dont do overporting (too large ports).. the main thing is the shape, valve seat angles, valve shape (back cut if possible)... lightweight valve train..

 

[docgabby]

look at the area around the valve, they have been unshrouded.

 

[docgabby]

black arrow is the unshrouded area. sir haen do you smoothen out the corners? (red arrow) potential areas for "hot spots"

 

[haen]

black arrow is the unshrouded area. sir haen do you smoothen out the corners? (red arrow) potential areas for "hot spots"
View attachment 16878

not mandatory as those are open areas..but if you have spare time it wont hurt

 

[docgabby]

not mandatory as those are open areas..but if you have spare time it wont hurt

this combustion chamber is not smoothened out and unpolished..would you suggest it to lessen chance of carbon deposits.


ceramic coating of combustion chamber prevents carbon build up.

 

[haen]

this combustion chamber is not smoothened out and unpolished..would you suggest it to lessen chance of carbon deposits.
View attachment 16880

ceramic coating of combustion chamber prevents carbon build up.
View attachment 16879

agreed, really love to have that coating facility here.. too costly.. would coat the valves too..

 

[docgabby]

agreed, really love to have that coating facility here.. too costly.. would coat the valves too..

we have the coating facility in manila. yup they are expensive. ceramic coating of combustion chamber including valves. piston top, dry film lubricant on the piston skirts and valve springs.

 

[TryX]

why do you need to do this?? isnt it much better to modify combustion chamber to unshroud valves and promote better flow? you want to reduce squish band to increase compression but yet the area of the stock valves still need unshrouding to promote better flow. why not just use hicompression piston instead.

Very simple Sir Doc, they want the forged pistons. Don't want waste the pistons. And those 57mm pistons is abit rare in the market here.. Everyone like bigger pistons. So aftermarket is full with bigger aftermarket pistons..

 

[rhoitol]

agreed ! our goal actually is achieving hi compression with dished piston (better flame travel - unobstructed)..



currently in research, already producing one, one thing is it is a YES better low end rpm performance, high rpm power, still have to find the most optimum w.. the mystery still lies in the porting shape, size ratio for staggering the valves size, shrouding area etc.... really love to do the research together with you guys...



1,5 mm block shave the piston would hit the cyl head, can be solved though .. the stock deck clearance is 0.8 mm + 0.2 mm cyl head gasket (pressed)... i suggest to shave the head instead of the block, max block shave is 0.8 mm, but for safety 0.5 mm, then do the rest on the cyl head.. things to remember.. the timing chain would loosen a bit and does effect the cam timing too.. also like doc gabby said.. unshroud the valves if you havent done so.. also dont do overporting (too large ports).. the main thing is the shape, valve seat angles, valve shape (back cut if possible)... lightweight valve train..

so Sir haen what will be the solution to the loose timing chain..nice inputs masters,

so your suggestion sir the block will be shave with .5mm and the head with .3mm?..tia..

 

[haen]

we have the coating facility in manila. yup they are expensive. ceramic coating of combustion chamber including valves. piston top, dry film lubricant on the piston skirts and valve springs..

really really love it... we have that facility too but must be in large qty to be... sad.. sad..

so Sir haen what will be the solution to the loose timing chain..nice inputs masters,

so your suggestion sir the block will be shave with .5mm and the head with .3mm?..tia..

usually use a chain tensioner with manual setup like the one from old Yamaha VEGA should do. Regarding the shaving if you cant find hi comp piston then yes that way should do... 0.8 mm still does it .. chain tension still acceptable.

 

[aizarn20]

is unshrouding the are around the valve decreases compression?in a shave block?

 

[aizarn20]

after reading some articles about this swirl...he.he now i know what to do let me try it on my bike he.he

 

[docgabby]

is unshrouding the are around the valve decreases compression?in a shave block?

unshrouding removes some hindrances to the flow into the combustion chamber. you may lose "some" combustion chamber volume which may affect compression but volumetric efficiency is much improved with unshrouding. and of course you can still install a high dome piston.

 

[aizarn20]

ok thanks doc

 

[Bullet]

all of you are wrong i have ordered my bike to be made 300 cc which is the limit for everyday use it utilyses the head and cylinder from what we call in indoneisia scorpio which has a stock cc of 225 we up the stroke then change the valves to ee5 from a car engine then change the radiator to a ninja 150s with the pump and recondition the block so it will run with he radiator i.e using a water jacket around the naked cylinder. after making all the settings perfect and using a safe compression ratio it is guaranteed functionality for 1 year of continuous riding at high speed as well as changing out the gear ratio to a 6 speed with a longer ratio where she can sit above 200 kph comfortably only pulling 6k rpm where it can rev to over 15k rpm ofcourse my carbs are huge as well as my fuel bill using a 38 size carb with a rextor monster cdi. oil needs to be changed every week and oil filter every two weeks. with all the head aches of making this beast the way we made it a daily driver was by buying 3 of everything putting it alltogether run it till it break then reset untill the combination is perfect. my bike has never seen a tailight from a ninja 250 cause in 1st gear im already doing 80 kph. if you would like to know my horsepower is 53, 60 can be achived easily by setting compresion ratios. 350cc is optionaly for racing but not recomended for daily use. have fun guy and if anyone whats to know where to make this ill tell you the price first 60 million rupiahs in other words 6000 dollars and remmeber thats for everything gears, magnets blocks, head, radiators, everything including cdis carbs and alt he rest. this is only for true 135 enthusiasts i love my bike to death because the best part is all the big bikes cant catch me. have fun ride safe.

 

[Mono]

all of you are wrong i have ordered my bike to be made 300 cc which is the limit for everyday use it utilyses the head and cylinder from what we call in indoneisia scorpio which has a stock cc of 225 we up the stroke then change the valves to ee5 from a car engine then change the radiator to a ninja 150s with the pump and recondition the block so it will run with he radiator i.e using a water jacket around the naked cylinder. after making all the settings perfect and using a safe compression ratio it is guaranteed functionality for 1 year of continuous riding at high speed as well as changing out the gear ratio to a 6 speed with a longer ratio where she can sit above 200 kph comfortably only pulling 6k rpm where it can rev to over 15k rpm ofcourse my carbs are huge as well as my fuel bill using a 38 size carb with a rextor monster cdi. oil needs to be changed every week and oil filter every two weeks. with all the head aches of making this beast the way we made it a daily driver was by buying 3 of everything putting it alltogether run it till it break then reset untill the combination is perfect. my bike has never seen a tailight from a ninja 250 cause in 1st gear im already doing 80 kph. if you would like to know my horsepower is 53, 60 can be achived easily by setting compresion ratios. 350cc is optionaly for racing but not recomended for daily use. have fun guy and if anyone whats to know where to make this ill tell you the price first 60 million rupiahs in other words 6000 dollars and remmeber thats for everything gears, magnets blocks, head, radiators, everything including cdis carbs and alt he rest. this is only for true 135 enthusiasts i love my bike to death because the best part is all the big bikes cant catch me. have fun ride safe.

Scorpio engine with a t135 body.. nice


By the way, is this the scorpio mc sir?